#1 2010-07-26 17:49:30

Michel-Ange
Ionize Core Team
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 927
Website

Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Today, Ionize provides a page based navigation which is coupled with the pages system.
The pages can be visible in the navigation menu and the structure of the pages is the navigation tree.

We thought about making the navigation independant from pages. But any other solution can interest us, we'd like to share the discussion with you as the community voice is very important for us.

We need your point of view about this feature :
1. What do think about this idea ?
2. How do you imagine it ? (through an independant tool in the admin panel, like today but renamed, etc...)


Inspiration & Innovation : Websites by Partikule, Agence Web Paris

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#2 2010-07-26 18:07:00

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Well, it's a bit confuse.
How can you make the navigation independant, can you explain the idea ?


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#3 2010-07-26 21:30:32

porga
Ion Tester
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-07-16
Posts: 164

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

I would like Ionize to remain page based CMS.

But page could "hold" multiple sections or blocks (something like in Typolight). So page could have article on top, video in the middle and Google map in bottom for example. Those sections could be added to page, but navigation should be page based.

I think that is logical thing for most users.

Drupal is for example node type of cms, but even them in forthcoming Drupal7 has page as content type.

BTW, Typolight (or Contao these days) could be great reference in many things. That is one great CMS, but limited with LGPL and German speaking literature and manuals.

Last edited by porga (2010-07-26 21:41:41)

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#4 2010-07-26 22:13:03

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

By independant Navigation we was thinking of something like Joomla if some of you knows this great CMS (yes Joomla is great CMS!).

Joomla have a separate tool to build menus manually, that means that first you create your articles (or pages) then you link them with the menu tool.

The pros is that this "cut" a bit the heavyness of the page system we have now in Ionize, because more features we will add, more the editing of content views will become heavy and overloaded. It will also let users write articles, pages etc. and only link them to show in public when and where they want. It will also permit you to link directly to an article, an external PDF or whatever you want.

The cons is that it will require you to do 1 more step before publishing a page.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#5 2010-07-26 23:14:32

porga
Ion Tester
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-07-16
Posts: 164

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

OK, seams reasonable, but i would do it this way.

site tree structure should be preserved for easy understanding of site hierarchy  (left column)

Because, when someone writes article, he knows where will that article go at the end, and new-coming users can easy see site structure.

When building custom menu (for example pages which will be shown on web), system could offer menu based site structure? I hope I am making sense....
Sort of like Full and Visible site tree structure

--page1
  |_Article1
  |_Map1

This way content is connected to page (basic type of content) but user can make page 7 and connect Map1 from page 1 to that page, or make page with list of all Articles or maps....
--page7
  |_Artice7
  |_Map1

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#6 2010-07-26 23:59:31

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Yes, if we decide to go for an independant Menu tool, it will mimic a bit the Joomla's one, which makes it possible to set a main url, and then as much alias of the same link in different menu levels, etc.

That is also a good idea to keep the menu tool on the left pane, like we have pages now, this will give a good overview of pages structure for sure !

Still waiting other people to comment and give opinion before coding that tool (it's not yet 100% sure we will do it, we are just considering it as an option for now ).


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#7 2010-07-27 08:46:18

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

I hope theses features would not be too complex for user. I chosen Ionize for flexibility and short time developping.
In my case, my partner is not a friend with computing. The backoffice of Ionize is so simple, a child can add an article.
I don't want Ionize becoming a joomla like.
But, if this option is fundamental, try to keep flexibility, for example : automatic saving tree when an article is added, for the basic use. An advanced user can modify the structure anyway.


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#8 2010-07-27 11:21:13

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

That is our dilemna Kink: we want to keep it simple and easy, and in the same time we want it to be very flexible, and that menu tool could alow more flexibility. We have to think again, and we would really want more people to give us more thoughts here before deciding it.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#9 2010-07-27 12:21:12

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Ok, in fact, the new core navigation could be transparent for user.
As you add an article 'A' in a section 'B', autolink could be created. No further manipulation.
But, in specific case, it could be possible to write an article in a sandbox for example (with autosave ?), and with a cool graphical interface, link one article to one section... etc.
Well, is a menu tool very useful ?
Can you implement theses features in left panel with more option for example ?
As you say Toopixel, keep it easy... hem, like the new product of EllisLab : http://mojomotor.com/ tongue


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#10 2010-07-29 10:44:53

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

One more point in favor of a menu tool: let's say we would like to generate more menus wich would not be part of the main page structure, we would need then to "add new menu".

Regarding this, if we don't go for a menu tool, then we probably would go for a feature to group pages together, so we would come with groups of pages on the left side.

Thoughts ?


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#11 2010-07-29 11:24:08

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Haaa ok, i understood. It's a kind of sdk to construct your menu as you want, the options are endless.
Perhaps is this the good way to implement more menus and sub_menus on the same page, as Porga want.

Now, if i am 'the writer' : i write an article, save it... and then, call the tool menu and check its position, that's all ?


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#12 2010-07-29 11:27:44

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

That is yes, but as I said that will require one additional step from the writer, a step which we don't have actually (now the writer doesn't have to think about the menu).

What we considered was maybe an "autosynch" button to synchronize the menu with pages automatically, but this will also have to be spoken later.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#13 2010-07-29 11:37:13

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Have you drawn a scheme about this ?


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#14 2010-07-29 11:41:17

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Nothing at all yet, we was only discussing it for the moment.
When we'll know where to go and what to do, then we'll probably go with precise ideas and schemes.

The only comparison point we have is Joomla, which personally I like the menu tool they have, it makes it very flexible to create whatever menus you where everywhere you want. But that's also why we wanted to have ideas of the community, because everyone has his own experience with other cms's.

Last edited by toopixel (2010-07-29 11:43:04)


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#15 2010-07-29 11:58:16

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Joomla menu tool looks like this : http://www.joomla.fr/images/stories/scr … !15_16.jpg

I hope you can simplify the menu... interface is a bit... confused.
But ok, you have my vote smile


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#16 2010-07-29 12:14:04

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Yeah of course we won't go for such an "usine à gaz" feeling of Joomla wink
Only the concept interest us.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#17 2010-07-29 17:35:34

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

We have defined a bit today with Michel-Ange what could be that menu tool, I'd like to share our conclusion with you, and hear your thoughts :

1. Actually in Ionize, what we call "Pages" are in fact the menus. First of, we could rename them to "Menus".
2. We think it's good that we include the notion of "Menus groups", which would be pages groups, those menus groups can then be called by the tags by its group name. That will make the designer able to "call" different menus in his template from everywhere he wants (top menu, left menu, footer menu etc.)
3. We won't change the actual way Ionize is working with views, articles etc. just that we'll add that notion of "menus groups"
4. A "system menu group" will be added, including the 404 page, and other core page which we won't be able to remove. This menu group will not be show to the user group administrators, but only to super administrators (so the client won't see and won't be able to edit those pages).
5. The designer will be able to choose his pages urls how he wants, all in multilingual of course, as we will change the links system to use the DB table Primary key, instead of relying on page aliased in words.

Any more things you would like to add or discuss ?

Last edited by toopixel (2010-07-29 17:38:29)


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#18 2010-07-29 18:03:02

porga
Ion Tester
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-07-16
Posts: 164

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Super,

That will be much better. But, rename this "Page" to "Menu" but leave page as content type.

So we could have two types of content, PAGE (imitating static pages like "about us", "siemap page" itc) and ARTICLE (imitating blogging type of content which has his own "read more" url etc).

This is something like Wordpress koncept

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#19 2010-07-29 18:08:47

Kink
Ion Tester
From: France
Registered: 2010-06-04
Posts: 581

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

When will you plan this version ?
Not for the 1.0 ?
I think it will not be 'retro-compatible' (i'm not sure of this english term tongue) ?


Webmaster / OUF!WEB

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#20 2010-07-29 18:15:25

Michel-Ange
Ionize Core Team
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 927
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

We plan this feature for the 0.9.5.

It "could be" retro-compatible.


Inspiration & Innovation : Websites by Partikule, Agence Web Paris

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#21 2010-07-29 18:47:11

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

@Porga: no we won't separate as you say, it would be a mistake imho.
We will keep the concept of what is ionize now, means that the views are related to pages, and each article can also have its views, menus will be only something on top of that to group elements together.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#22 2010-07-30 08:04:58

porga
Ion Tester
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-07-16
Posts: 164

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

OK, but how can I add article to page without having extra URL segment for that article?

(If I want article to be part of page, not separate segment)?

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#23 2010-07-30 09:35:43

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

Not sure to understand, but best solution is to call it via the tags where you want. Michel-Ange can explain you better than me how to work with tags (they are amazingly powerful).


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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#24 2010-07-30 12:11:19

porga
Ion Tester
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-07-16
Posts: 164

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

If article article1 is added to page1 we can call it with
Example.com/page1  shows page with article
Example.com/page1/article1 shows only that article

I would like to be able to add article to page as part of page, without extra url.

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#25 2010-07-30 12:13:11

toopixel
Ionize Core Team
From: Geneva
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Your voice about navigation in Ionize ?

That's what I am saying, tags is the way to go.
Michel-Ange will explain you better how to use them for your problem.


Too Pixel is a web agency located in Geneva, Switzerland

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What's Ionize ?

Ionize is an Open Source Content Management System created by webdesigners for webdesigners.

Created and maintained by Partikule and Toopixel, Ionize wants to be the easiest and most powerful CMS.

Can I help ?

Because talent is nothing without involvement, we are looking for motivated coders and webdesigners to join the project team.

Resources

Website : ionizecms.com
Documentation : doc.ionizecms.com

Development : Ionize on GitHub
Translations : Ionize Translations